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FAQ’s | Alkaline activated water | Water Filters | Water Treatments
The FAQ video interview about alkaline activated water is presented in detail by Mr. Asenbaum to deeply understand the subjects of water and water treatment. The video shows the most important questions and answers, which still cause doubt, for example: the subject about water and stomach acids. Below you will find our pool of collected FAQ’s and you can also browse through our FAQ database.
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FAQ’s | Alkaline activated water | Stomach acids
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A categorised overview of all our Frequently Asked Questions about alkaline, electro-activated water, hydrogen water, opposed views, technical questions and answers, proof from experiments
The following questions and answers have been very kindly compiled by author and researcher Karl Heinz Asenbaum over the last 12 years (!) and these are continuously updated and extended. These FAQ’s and a few more dealing with the subject of water and water treatment can be found in German on his knowledge database.
Product related questions and answers
Heinrich H.: The U.S. researcher Tyler LeBaron writes that the content of dissolved hydrogen is the sole therapeutic advantage of activated water, even if “mildly alkaline water” from a water ionizer from the same drinking area as you, say between pH 8 and 9, is certainly recommended. If I am not too acidified, because I move a lot and am healthy and eat alkaline foods, why should I then buy a relatively expensive water ionizer and not one of the new electric Hydrogen Rich Water Makers, which are much cheaper and specifically geared to replenish the water with hydrogen gas?
Your question is understandable. But it is, first of all, not a question of price. Because good electric HRW Makers are nothing more than batch ionizers that, usually much smaller versions for small quantities, are much cheaper than the trendy HRW devices. If you must drink the water necessarily in the neutral pH range, because you don’t want it alkaline, then just remove from a cheap batch ionizer the diaphragm and you then also produce the same HRW. Because batch ionizers work usually even faster with more power.
After 2007, since the state of research on the therapeutic benefits of HRW exploded, I would not contradict you and Prof. Le Baron, that HRW obtained by electrolysis without a diaphragm can be usefully applied and secured in many therapies.
The first effect complies with the 1937 medicinal product marketed by the German engineer Alfons Natterer. Hydropuryl N, which he created in the middle chamber of a 3-chamber cell without a diaphragm membrane.
Only in the 60’s was this neutral electrolytic water of the varieties Hydropuryl S (sour/acidic) and Hydopuryl A (alkaline = basic) pushed back. For the same effect can be achieved by back-mixing A and S. Therefore, for decades no 3-chamber cells are needed, and the 2-chamber system has prevailed.
You can create with each flow through water ionizer HRW, by bringing together the alkaline and the acidic outlet during filling. The yield of hydrogen and oxygen is much greater, because the electrolysis cells are trimmed to high performance. Such devices are of course more expensive, but also offer the advantage of a built-in pre-filter, which is recommended often for our tap water, especially if we want to ionize it for drinking.
An HRW Maker is a one-cell electrolysis device. The water is thus not only enriched with hydrogen from the cathode, but also with oxygen from the anode. With hydrogen we have a desired effect with therapists because of its antioxidant character. Oxygen on the other hand, is the opponent of hydrogen and thus oxidative, but the oxidation of hydrogen (2H2O) is not immediate, and happens with detours, so that both gases remain reasonably stable and separated in the water and do not react to water.
Still, after 14 hours even with multiple HRW production is everything over, as you can see in my readings below in a HRW device called SUSOSU Plus (Identical to Arui Hendy) with Munich tap water.
By pressing the button 1 time, a 3-minute electrolysis process occurs in which one sees both oxygen and hydrogen bubbles rising. In addition to pH and ORP I have the TDS value, the conductive particles measured in ppm. This device also has a small ring filled with minerals, the use of which worsened the result. It is intended mainly for very soft water, as it prevails in Japan and Korea, so in these parts of the world does not count for much.
So what could now be said of such a product? Oxygen has a slight flavour enhancing effect. Everyone who has tried swirled or levitated water knows this because a water vortex is nothing more than an ORW-Maker (Oxygen Rich Water) by swirling oxygen from the air. But swirlers usually have no powerful prefilter and if at all, they are mounted before the swirler, which really is not recommended with our polluted and often germ-laden air. Therefore, an HRW Maker, which is filled with filtered water, is definitely preferable, in my opinion, to a swirler. Incidentally, they also increase the ORP by catapulting hydrogen and carbon dioxide and simultaneously mixing in oxygen. With the loss of carbon dioxide the water does become slightly alkaline. This also happens in a HRW device, because here during electrolysis carbon dioxide is expelled. Also activated water that is mixed back from a batch or flow through ionizer is usually slightly more alkaline than the tap water.
By pressing 8 times, i.e. 24 minutes production time you get 779 micrograms. This value no longer increases with 60 Minutes Production time (20 x 3 min) or 75 minutes (25 x 3 min). The maximum point in the water used settles at 828 micrograms / l. This is slightly more than half of the highest amount with this kind of water with a diaphragm – ionizer measured by myself with a maximum value of 1577 micrograms / liter . So you need to drink about twice the amount of water in order to benefit from the same amount of hydrogen as with this Susosu HRW device . That’s basically not bad, because you are supposed to drink a lot of activated water, instead of the usual strong oxygen and carbon dioxide-rich everyday drinks. But who likes to drink water constantly! I therefore think the alkaline water from a diaphragm – ionizer is significantly better than the water from a HRW device.
What is the reason for that? The explanation is, in my view, from the counter effect of oxygen and hydrogen in a non-diaphragm electrolysis separated redox process between the simultaneously produced hydrogen and oxygen. This has not yet been fully explained for electro activated water. Nevertheless, the basis of an explanation is simple and over 200 years old, in the research guessed already by the founders of electrochemistry Alessandro Volta and Johann Wilhelm Ritter and the ingenious discoverer of electrical activation of water; Alfons Natterer. The great chemist Nernst, with his seemingly all-explaining pH / redox potential equation had only viewed the substances dissolved in water, but not the water itself that gets new properties through the process of diaphragm electrolysis. Only Vitold Bakhir in the 1970’s had perceived this, but was not able to explain it.
Water molecules are known to consist of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. These are in a mutual redox equilibrium, which can be expressed in millivolts and is in a specific dependence of the pH value.
If now, the same as with water electrolysis without a diaphragm, oxygen and hydrogen gases out of the water, the redox equilibrium changes, depending on which gas leaves the water faster. This in turn entirely depends on the complete composition of the tap water, how much of these two and other gases were already dissolved in the water prior to electrolysis.
Described on the penultimate page are the SUSOSU measurement examples which show that a 3 minute electrolysis showed the lowest redox potential. It has thus achieved at this stage more dissolved hydrogen in water than oxygen. This ratio then changed at the 7 x 3 = 21 minute long electrolysis, because the redox potential rose again. After 14 hours the water was back, approximately equally balanced between oxygen and hydrogen, like before electrolysis.
In diaphragm electrolysis, oxygen is removed from the cathode water, whilst it accumulates only in the anode water. The hydrogen in the cathode water, however, has no redox partner and the water gets a very low redox potential.
So when it comes to actually producing hydrogen rich water, diaphragm electrolysis is fundamentally superior. Abundance of hydrogen is like someone going shopping with a lot of money: You do not know if the buyer pays for everything with a credit card or whether that person really is so rich. The fact is that you can also buy sensible things on credit.
In this sense, the hydrogen produced in a HRW Maker by single electrolysis makes sense, just as more than 500 serious studies with such water show. You can find clear and up to date information on the website: http://www.molecularhydrogenfoundation.org/
Of course, no one will want to give up, if like me you have been drinking alkaline activated water for 11 years at pH 9.5, the alkaline part of activated water from diaphragm electrolysis.
As soon as with ca. 45 years, for unknown reasons, the alkaline buffer of bicarbonate in human blood tilts, I stand by Dr. Walter Irlacher: With age and lifestyle come the spa and hyperacidity diseases. His concept of de-acidification we have presented together in the Service Manual for Humans since 2006 scientifically and hitherto have been unchallenged by tens of thousands of readers and patients. I am still completely convinced: oxygen does not belong in the water, but in the lungs and into the blood.
And a maximum of saturated hydrogen-rich water possible should pass through your digestive system. That’s why we should drink it.
What is the role of hydrogen in our body? It is just the basic currency of all energy processes in the body. In his Nobel Prize acceptance speech in 1937, Albert Szent-Györgyi expressed it like this: “Our body really knows only one fuel, hydrogen. Our food, carbohydrates, is basically only a hydrogen package … and the main event during its combustion is the elimination of hydrogen.” Simple and no better way to express it. Chemically, it is very complex.
Back to your question: I admit that what I eat is not always healthy and I am doing too little exercise. For this I argue with the usual acidity diseases such as diabetes, allergies and cancer for supremacy in my body.
But for all-round healthy people, who are actually not too acidic, I see in HRW water already as an alternative to get away from the really overacidified drinks and waters.
Because even switching from soda to plain tap water reduces the acid load in the body more than any change of a diversified diet to vegetarian. This is even more the case when you change to very slightly alkaline HRW, if you do not need to jump to the right alkaline activated water.
Although it is only half the effect in the alkaline area. Anyway, better than the cascade of acidosis syndromes to acidification disasters – like the uninformed others – to slide further into an age of suffering and disease. I myself was on this path, until I started to think more thoroughly.
Patricia G.: For years we were convinced by reverse osmosis water and payed a lot of money for such a device. Since, we have realised our mistake. It is actually logical! But can the available device be used as a pre-filter for a water ionizer so that extremely clean water is ionized?
- This is a question of economy. Filters from reverse osmosis devices are usually not cheaper than those for water ionizers. They filter more out, not only the pollutants but also the valuable minerals, which would be added later with further filter cartridges. I have tested most of these post mineralisation cartridges. The result is not viable, since these cartridges are unusable after a short amount of time, for the minerals dissolve in variable amounts and you have every time different results and you constantly have to calibrate the ionizer. Just calculate that. It is not worth it.
- You can add only salt to reverse osmosis water before ionizing, then it lets itself be ionized. With the Enagic Leveluk SD 501® a brine (“electrolysis enhancer”) is added. This is similar, like with salt crystals, to water ionizers that have a salt compartment. But because this then has an unpleasant alkaline taste, one uses the procedure in a praxis to produce hygiene technical alkaline and acidic activated water. After drinking water regulations it would not be approved as drinking water. It is useful to laboratories, not for domestic use.
- Reverse osmosis water is, in principle, no more a natural matter than alkaline activated water, since both are not naturally occurring. Both are functional waters invented by engineers. Alkaline, antioxidant and highly mineralised water exists separately, yet this intelligent combination is nowhere to be found except from a water ionizer. Reverse osmosis water was invented for batteries and further developed for astronauts to make drinking water from their urine. This water does not even exist in parts*** in the natural world. Ask a spaceman if he gladly drank the urine water of his crew!
- When buying a reverse osmosis device you probably fell for the usual sales gimmick with –> conductance, in which the statement was said to you, the more conductance, the more pollutants. The trick lies in the mix up of quantity with quality.
- In the reverse osmosis field there are many recondite arguements bustling around, all these could almost be a book in itself. Even the citation from mineral water and activated water fans often seems funny: reverse osmosis water is acidic and therefore dangerous! This is absolute nonsense! Reverse osmosis water in itself is absolutely pH neutral. But it is, since it doesn’t contain any ions, acidic from the carbonic acid gas, for it doesn’t contain any kind of alkaline resistance and acidifies like rain water which falls through the air.
- A mineral deficiency in water can, of course, be compensated with plentiful food, weight gain with that for free. The website www.whiskey.de writes for the use of a mix drink: “Stilecht is exclusive Scottish still water. Good to use as well are still, poor frenchmen. And if you don’t have either at hand, simply use distilled water. Warning: Never drink large amounts of pure, distilled water. The deficiency of ions in distilled water can severely disrupt your own mineral balance in your body and can even be life threatening. For this reason always pour a corresponding measure of Single Malt Whiskey into your glass of distilled water. ;-)”
- In Israel, because of the water shortage, until the year 2020 they are forced to provide 72 percent of the cities water suppliers with de-ionized water from desalination plants and reverse osmosis facilities. Since this would dramatically reduces the mineral supply of the inhabitants, the local legislator has issued that the water has to have at least 50 mg/l calcium carbonate admixed, supplied from limestone. (Source Brenner, A. Mineral Balance of mineral quality standards for desalinated water: The Israeli experience; in Bhattacharya, amongst other things metals and related substances in drinking water, London 2012, page 114)
Andrea G.: I sent my alkaline activated water to a laboratory, just to see, if pollutants still remain. The parameters were good, yet I wonder as to why the water hardness was 5 German degrees less than our tap water! Does the filter remove the hard salts, like calcium and magnesium, or does that happen during electrolysis?
- No. Alkaline activated water is initially always clearly harder than tap water from which it was drawn. Nevertheless your laboratory made no mistake, for surely it did not examine alkaline activated water, since the relaxation period already elapsed once the analysis took place and the hardness forming minerals were no longer in the water. In addition, the gas composition in the water and the lime-carbonic acid balance has changed. The increased hardness and thereby the higher mineral content can be tested by you immediately after producing this water, if you hold a hardness test strip into the water. (These you get from aquarium shops).
- If after a few days the hard salts fall out, then the relaxed activated water is in fact, softer than the tap water before. Why this is so, would here go too far. The reduction in hardness can be monitored with two hardness test strips. (Aquarium shop). Tea lovers, who prefer to have soft water, can use the relaxed activated water very well, to produce streak free black tea.
- Activated water should be drunk cold and untreated. It still contains a mineral surplus then. The hardening salts calcium and magnesium belong to the minerals which are vital to humans. Natural calcium and magnesium compounds contribute to the good taste of the water. With coffee connoisseurs is the calcium rich water a better aroma enhancer. For technical purposes like washing can hard water be cumbersome. Sensible would be to soften only warm water. So not drinking water. In Austria, for example, such warm water softening is recommended firstly over 18° dH carbonate hardness according to the ÖNORM M 6245 normative. However, also after the chemical softening (Codex chapter B1 Drinking Water) should a minimum hardness of 8,4° dH show (equate to 60 mg/l calcium).
- If you also want to soften your cold tap water, then the taste of your alkaline activated water might not be to your liking any longer. With the usual water softeners, by means of an ion exchange, calcium is removed from the water in favour of sodium. The result is by all means in higher pH areas a slight sodium flavour. Apart from that, sodium is an element which we consume more than enough in our diet, whilst calcium as a bulk element, of which we contain from 1 to 2 kg in our body, is practically always needed.
Durability of ORP from a self produced alkaline water concentrate
Sahra W.: In your book “Drink yourself alkaline”, you wrote how alkaline water concentrate can be made with a batch ionizer. How long does the Redox Potential/ORP keep?
- After many tries with keeping and diluting alkaline water concentrates, I advise against it, even the home made one. Even if you make it from a balanced mix of sodium, potassium and distilled water, in the end you only have a diluted caustic potash and caustic lye, which has no taste and only contains a chemically produced negative Redox Potential, which becomes uninteresting when diluted. The relaxation period of electric activation with diluted concentrates doesn’t hold longer than with ready to drink alkaline activated water.
André H.: My activated acidic water doesn’t really get acidic when I set my ionizer to “acidic”. Yet when I sample the acidic water from the run off water pipe during alkaline water production, it is, at least, a little bit acidic.
- Sadly, this producer didn’t listen to me and constructed the water separation in such a way, to not waste any water, that the ratio of acidic water and alkaline water is at 2:1 instead of 1:1. We use up to 4 – 9 litres of water every time we flush the toilet, much more water used than what flows through a household ionizer. Because of the narrowness by the outlet of the electrolysis cell, what flows out of the acidic water outlet pipe is stronger and more concentrated depending on the setting. If you choose acidic water on the setting key, you will get a stronger alkaline activated water from the outlet pipe than when the normal setting is selected.
- That acidic water in most European areas doesn’t really get acidic is normal. We have a lot of carbonic acid and few acidic ions in the water. If you add salt to the feed water, that is something different!
What should I keep my eyes open for when buying a water ionizer when regarding electrolysis cells?
- The outer size or volume of the cell(“as big as a video cassette”) is relatively unimportant. What is important is the electrode surface, which comes into contact with the water flowing through. Ask your sales person not only about the amount of electrodes, but also about their size. The more square centimetres of contact area there are with the platinum surface and the water, the higher the performance possibility of an ionizer. Hard water requires more output than soft water. Water that is rich in hydrogen carbonate increases the performance requirements. The usual domestic cells have between 400 and 2000 cm2 contact area. The surface is only a sales pitch with hard water. There are other factors.
- The wattage of the power supply is of little meaning, since this is the maximum wattage, which should always be enough, because the power supply units are adapted to the electrode surface. The actual used electricity is mainly determined by the content of electrolytes in the water. The water “demands” the maximum amount from the power supply. Besides, one can also maximise the performance of a small electrode surface with expert electronic automatic control. Some devices even have an electricity supply with transformers. Because of their low electrical efficiency they use up more than modern switching power supplies. Additionally they also create “electrosmog”, of which the impact on water is still being widely discussed without results. A measurable difference with activated water regarding the power supply does not exist.
- The standard for electrodes in domestic ionizers is platinum coated titanium. The precious metal platinum is affixed to the contact surface as a catalyst, so that the oxygen separation is increased with the output of the anode and to prevent the corrosion due to oxidation. The choice and quality of this material prevents metal ions being bypassed from the anodes into the water, like with the so called sacrificial anodes, which slowly dissolve. On the other hand the cathode does not suffer this corrosion. Yet with modern water ionizers the electrodes are used as a cathode and as an anode for descaling, so the cathode is also platinum coated. With this type of coating you get different qualities: sprayed platinum – galvanic dipping – galvanic dipping followed by being baked in an oven. Mostly you see with the guarantee period, which procedure was used. Sprayed electrodes have mostly the legitimate minimum guarantee. Serious suppliers will provide the coating thickness (up to 0,3 μm) and information on the surface structure of the electrodes.
- You must ask about the shape of the electrodes. If they are not formed the same way and have a flat surface, a local calcification can occur due to an asymmetrical electrical flux, which builds up layers that press on the diaphragm and perforate it. This happens with “mashed” electrodes, that mostly have slanted slits, with perforated electrodes and especially with so called honeycomb electrodes. Devices with such electrodes work efficiently, in my opinion in soft water areas. Any irregularities have a negative effect with calciferous water, even when a calcification safety system following the reverse flow principle is built in. The calcium oxide quite easily finds niches, where a reduced current dynamic dominates and splays out from there.
- The best kept secret of electrolysis cells are its current dynamics. How is the water led like this through the cells, that most of the water molecules reach the high voltage field of the electrode surface? With flow-through ionizers the contact time of the flow rate through the cell is clearly under one second. If the water is poorly drawn, then only the edges of the water flow will be ionized. Even the best software for tension control can not offset engineering mistakes with such a flow rate. That is why some devices achieve better results with a small electrode surface as with a bigger one. In the end the ultimate consumer only has the direct comparison with the same output water and the same flow rate. For an objective comparison the pre-filters have to be bridged, since some manufacturers trim the mixed chemicals upwards (—>chemical water ionizing). To avoid such comparisons and rule out the use of other filters, some manufacturers have moved on to equipping the filters with electronic surveillance chips. If the chip expires or is not available, then the electrolysis cell is not supplied with electricity. There are possibilities to avoid this, yet it does require technical skill.
- A layperson can easily check an important feature of the current dynamic: If more alkaline water flows out compared to acidic water, then the output of a cell cannot be exhausted. This “output limitation” happens because the bigger amount of alkaline water does not have as much contact time with the electrodes as the smaller amount of acidic water. This means that a device with 7 electrodes and 1039 cm2 contact area, with the same water flow and neutral conditions, only reach a pH value of 9, whilst a device with 665 cm2 even reach pH 9,8. Prospectuses like to palliate this, in which they claim to have higher amounts of alkaline water or less “acidic water waste”. Nonetheless, one can adapt such bad designs by selecting the acidic water button and you broach the alkaline water from there. Sadly, you hear many annoying warning indications from the sound chip. For that, with water ionizers that have asymmetrical water distribution you tap into stronger alkaline water. The most natural ones are water ionizers that proportionately separate the water in half because of the symmetrical assembly of a classic electrolysis cell. It makes sense to save on waste water when flushing the toilet, showering, washing, dishwashing, and anywhere, where a lot of water is used: Since we do not usually need more than 3 litres/day of alkaline activated water, is the saving of 1 to 2 litres of acidic waste water completely useless. Reverse osmosis filters use more waste water, even though they don’t even produce water fit for drinking!
Which salt should I add to my salt shaft in my water ionizer to have the redox potential boosted optimally?
- Whilst producing alkaline activated water you should ask yourself if you really want that. Except for people who have an extremely poor sodium diet, most of us have a sodium excess from their diet. So why add sodium chloride (salt) to the water?
- Please also check beforehand if your drinking water provider doesn’t use an ion exchanger, which changes sodium for calcium ions, to make the water softer. Also a glance at the drinking water analysis of your water provider wont harm at all. Is there already more than 50 mg/l of sodium in the water? If that is the case, then the activated alkaline water will not really taste good with the salt addition.
- In most cases the salt addition only to create acidic, hygienic Function water (Anolyte) is useful, which is not apt for drinking. Also you don’t need a special salt. Table salt, bath salt, mill salt or sea salt is enough. Chloride is in everything and after electrolysis works as a strong hypochloride acid which disinfects. It would be senseless to waste gourmet salts like Fleur du Sel or Himalaya salt on this.
I would like to get my wife a water ionizer as a present for our silver wedding anniversary. Whilst searching I found a price range from 40 € to over 3000 €. Is the cheapest one the worst and the most expensive one the best?
- The definition “water ionizer”, which appeared around 30 years ago, originally defines electrolysis cells with a diaphragm, with which at least two sorts of electrolyte water can be produced, which today refer to alkaline and acidic activated water.
- These electrolyte waters were registered in Germany as specialty medicines, but one didn’t know why they worked. There was also only a small plant that produced it.
- As the technical production improved and the domestically capable electrolysis devices were distributed, pH metres were used, to demonstrate the change in water from the devices to the clients. With electrolysis, water molecules are divided into water ions H+ and OH-, so people started to talk of water ionizers. The ratio of both water ions is determined by the measurable pH value.
- Among experts “alkaline ionized water” was the talk, whilst in everyday life the cation part of the electrolysis water was simply termed as “alkaline water”. Many sales people argued the term always with pH measurements and especially in Japan the talk of over acidifying was popular. With that, the words “water ionizer” were gradually associated with the production of “alkaline water”, without differentiating it from a chemical lye. This is how we reached today’s product confusion.
- Alkaline water can be produced very easily, even without diaphragm electrolysis. To that, no acidity is extracted from the water, a chemical is added, which makes the water alkaline. The diversity of these running board products, which are also offered as water ionizers, I have labeled and analysed under the heading —> chemical water ionizers.
- The term “water ionizer” cannot be registered and is therefore used, contrary to its purpose, for the chemical water additives, which thanks to its skilled packaging gives the impression of bestowing a device. The experts endeavour a more exact conceptualisation, for no agreement prevails. I have formed the artistic concept for an electrolytical water ionizer Hydrionator® and have had it registered. Every manufacturer of such a device can receive from me a free right of use. I don’t see any other kind of way of eliminating the confusion in the market.
- What you should give your wife as a present is a water ionizer based on diaphragm electrolysis. There are simple —> batch ionizers with two electrodes and flow through devices with built in pre-filters and an —> electrolysis cell with numerous —> electrodes. Comfortable devices with automatic de-calcification and year long guarantees cost around 2000 € (as of 2014). I would not pay more. So the most expensive is not the best.
- Let yourself be advised by an expert who doesn’t have any other water preparation techniques up his/her sleeve. By means of a drinking water analysis, your connection situation and the financial possibilities, an optimal solution will be found for you. With a flow through device you should watch out for an exact rate of flow display showing in real time. This is the most important prerequisite for the device to operate efficiently.
Why do you not recommend a mineral water ionizer that works without electricity?
Hans-Christian L.: Why do you not recommend any water ionizers that do not work without electricity? They are much cheaper and reach, according to Dietmar Ferger’s book “Fountain of Youth Springwater” (page 66) values up to pH 10 and a Redox Potential of -400mV, so even higher than the pH 9,5 and the -350mV that you recommend. Besides, this water of a mineral water ionizer should taste to the connoisseur round, full and warm, whilst that of an electric water ionizer is described as “cool, clear and technical” (page 77).
- I don’t only not recommend the mineral water ionizer, I also dissuade people from it. They don’t create recommended alkaline activated water, but rather chemical lyes, alkaline solutions.
- Ferger reports in his book “Jungbrunnenwasser” (Fountain of Youth Spring Water, Weil am Rhein, 2011, page 65) very accurately the difference between chemical lyes and activated water: “Electrolytically produced alkali and acids have at the same pH level a respectively lower or higher Redox Potential”. This is the deciding factor: Without electric activation the Redox Potential corresponds to the ratio of pH levels of the Nernst equation. It can be calculated with a formula and it doesn’t need to be measured. Only with the electrolytic process does it reach the abnormal Redox Potential, first discovered by Vitold Bakhir. (Prilutzky, V. / Bakhir, V., Electochemically activated water: Anomalous properties, mechanism of biological action, Moscow 1997). The abnormal Redox Potentials are meta stable, that means, they disappear during a certain relaxation period. Only during this relaxation period do the extraordinary abilities of activated water show, which allow it to work as functional water.
- Ferger’s statement is more incomprehensible, when on page 72 he explains loud and clear: “Important for the biological effect, is that alkaline activated water and acidic oxide water are physically produced solutions. This means, that the pH value occurs on a physical level and not a chemical level with the addition of chemicals, more specifically, minerals. The OH- respectively, H+ ions are therefore “free”, they have no “corresponding” chemicals in the water. He illustrates this point also with a caustic soda lye (NaOH), which the stomach acid HCI neutralises when it comes into contact with it, in which a saline solution NaCI and water is made with the formula NaOH + HCI + < =>Na+ + Cl- + H2O. Whereas “with a free OH- ion the stomach acids remain intact, since the chlorine can’t make salt with an OH ion. OH- + HCl < =>OH- + H+ + Cl- < => Cl- + H2O”. (Page 72). So on this chemical path with help from minerals can no organic goal be achieved. The mineral water ionizers are biologically pointless.
- Sadly the term water ionizer is not patentable and scientifically not clearly defined. Originally in Germany the term electrolysis device was used. Since 1979 in Japan the definition “Alkaline Ionized Water Apparatus” worked its way into society, which then from the marketing of different companies has been shortened to “water ionizer”. The definition is fundamentally not wrong, since by electrolysis the water molecule H2O is really divided into water ions OH and H+.
- Indeed, this degradation of water molecules in ions can lead to added minerals, also in the water. However, only when a corresponding chemical in the shape of an ion is available. Depending on what type of mineral it is and where it stands on the chemical Redox scale, does its pH value change because of the chemical and the corresponding Redox Value according to the Nernst equation.
- With naive observation the same occurs with both processes, for example with the alkaline water: The pH value rises, the Redox Potential sinks. The question is, by how much?
- Both can be named “water ionizers” correctly. An incredible abundance of such mineral mixes that come as powders, filters, “Alka-Streamers”, pots, sticks and rods fill the market with the promise of an “alkaline balance”, “anti-oxidative”, etc., without mentioning that only with electrolytical water ionizing does the Redox Potential in relation to the pH values change so extraordinarily, that a special period of use arises. The imprecision of the definition water ionizer has caused me to waiver the term “ionized water” and I now systematically use the term “active water” or “Activated water”, for activated is not the chemical variation of water ionizing.
- Mainly, these mineral ionizers are not adjustable. One has to remeasure the minerals each time because they are not indicated in the water in a controlled amount. The top results of the Redox Potential indicated by Ferger I was only able to measure with one of these mineral water ionizers and only in the first week of operating it. Afterwards the performance sank rapidly. I have tested most of these products. Most ensured after one week with Munich tap water (dH 15,5) only minimal, hardly measurable pH values and Redox Potential alterations. You must use measuring metres if you have bought one of these devices. At least the pH has to be constantly controlled since the manufacturer’s data is mostly very exaggerated.
- The taste verdict from Dietmar Ferger’s quoted connoisseurs is not sufficiently proven. Was the water compared with the same pH and Redox values? Hardly, because this is physically not possible with these different ionizing methods.
- The most varied offers of mineral mixes are swarming around the market which trick the consumer into believing that he or she is drinking alkaline activated water. Sometimes as a tea infuser, sometimes as a flow-through filter, as a water shaker or as a magic wand.
- The composition which mineral water ionizers use for admixtures and filter materials doesn’t appear to be subjected to any kind of control or regulation. Exact indication of quantities can hardly be found with the “devices” on the market. In bio-ceramic filters the materials used with tourmalin and acid reducer zeolite powder is an aluminosilicate to burn the ceramic pellets, of which potassium, calcium, magnesium, silver, iron, zinc, copper, molybdenum, manganese, lithium and other substances are added, frequently even the semi-conductive, poisonous, in Germany prohibited food supplement, germanium (Ge).
- Also metallic magnesium (Mg) is admixed, a material that is also used in fireworks. When dissolved in water it sinks the Redox Potential and raises the pH value.It is a simulated effect, which exclusively is based on the position of magnesium elements in the electrochemical series (Redox Potential) and has nothing to do with water activation. Hydrogen is released according to the formula Mg + 2H2O -> Mg (OH)2 + H2. Because the hydrogen (H2) during the long soaking time of the mineral cartridges evaporates and the metallic magnesium doesn’t work evenly, it is rendered useless. The most well known product of this kind is Hidemitsu Hayashi’s Hydrogen Rich Water Stick. Read the user comments on Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Original-Hayashi-Hydrogen-Rich-Water/dp/B002PIJ63C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429616581&sr=8-1&keywords=hydrogen+rich+water+stick)
- When opening one of these mineral cartridges, the awful view is something like in the picture. How safe the germ contamination is by lots of use remains to be seen.
- I hope I have illustrated clearly why I advise against mineral water ionizers. Their efficiency (for example with – 80 mV (CSE) by pH 8,07) is not only low but also biologically uninteresting. So what can be done when on holiday and you would like to drink alkaline activated water? I personally always have room in my suitcase for a small batch ionizer. I buy local still mineral water and ionize it.
- There are also electric mini-electrolysis devices on the market, which even fit inside a handbag. What you have to remember is: There is no alkaline activated water without the use of electricity and without draining the acid water. Just by adding small pellets you will not get activated water with an abnormal Redox Potential and a relaxation period, merely a normal, chemical lye like the one pictured below.
- With the small IonyTM, below left, the acid water gets sucked into the hollow space inside the rod and the activated alkaline water appears in the glass. On the silver wire used as a cathode you can see the hydrogen bubbles. Even if this handbag ionizer needs 3 hours for normal values (-222 mV (CSE)) in a glass of water and in the long run isn’t the most hygienic when operating it, the comparative values of the same output water show with the Redox Potential the clear differences: Here we didn’t ionize chemically and we see an abnormal Redox Potential in proportion to the desired pH values.
The incorporated indicator drops that come with a water ionizer are too imprecise for me. Which electric pH-metre do you recommend?
- Hardly any manufacturer gives the consumer more than the pH measuring drops. Strictly speaking these are adequate. To display the effect of ionization, you only have to observe the difference between the coloured tap water and the alkaline activated water with the different colour indicator. It doesn’t depend on the absolute pH value after the decimal point, instead, that the difference amounts to maximally 2 colour levels, depending on how strong you want your water. Tap water is mostly green, light alkaline activated water is blue and the stronger one is purple.
- Teststrips are relatively expensive, since you cannot use normal indicator paper. It has to be coated so that when pulling the strip out of the water the result is not distorted by the air.
- Electric pH-metres are cheaper and available for 20 €. With today’s guarantee rules it is not given as an accessory, since they would survive few measurements of activated water, especially in the hands of amateurs. This is the case with expensive as well as cheap pH-metres. The electrodes break quickly in activated water and they can only be exchanged in the expensive metres.
- If you can cope with the maintenance efforts, storage in special liquids and calibrating with every use in new calibration liquid, because you want to measure exactly: you need at any rate a calibrable device with an exchangeable electrode. I have already worn out hundreds of them.
- Never buy a combination device with a redox measurer if the redox electrode cannot be calibrated.
- Buy plenty of bags with calibration liquid and with storage liquid and don’t forget that you always need distilled or deionized water for cleaning.
- The best option is to buy the metre in a specialised aquarium shop nearby, where you can buy the necessary accessories again and where you have experts who are informed should there ever be a problem.
Kevin J.: Is it worth it to get a pH / ORP dual function meter?
The known dual function meters are in the redox measurement range and are “work calibrated” and cannot be re-calibrated, which is actually needed with every measurement of activated water. Do not buy!
A redox meter is more expensive than a pH meter. Yet the same limitations apply as described under the key word —> pH measurements.
So far the most stable ORP electrode I found in a device from “American Marine Pinpoint”. But, like I have said, this is for specialists and one has to exchange the electrodes frequently for a lot of money, since especially the acidic activated water attacks them very quickly.
To determine exact values it is absolutely necessary to polish the electrodes after every measurement with the mostly not delivered and very expensive polishing strips. If you forget to do that you will obtain completely wrong measurements.
The measured redox potential with the usual redox metres (CSE = Common Silver Electrode, sometimes also called Ag/AgCl) do not correspond with the scientific standard Eh (sometimes also SHE = Standard Hydrogenium Electrode). When comparing the measurements you have to indicate which electrode reference is used. There are also electrodes with mercury or gold, for which there is no abbreviation. These also have to be indicated with the measurement. If not, the values hang in mid-air, for ORP values are only a reference value to a certain electrode.
Conversion: CSE (mV) + 207 mV = Eh and reversed Eh (SHE) mV – 207 mV = CSE. The reference temperature amounts to 250 C. Good devices register the temperature and correct the corresponding measurement. Besides, there are also reference electrodes of a particular kind with other conversion parameters, but CSE and SHE are the most used.
The safest would be to have the measurement of dissolved hydrogen which determines the relevant ORP. These specific measurement devices are very expensive and belong in the hands of specialists.
A simple homemade verification of the negative redox potential of alkaline activated water is, for example, the iodine test. Alkaline water does not turn brown with one drop of iodine.
On the 16.07.16 Oswald B. asked: What do you think of the Vital Water Plus Hydrogen Rich Water system with natural mineral water on the website http://www.ekpt.com/product.htm ?
This is a typical OXY-Hydrogen device based on membrane-less electrolysis with 12 V/1,5A.
Additionally, magnesium (metallic) dissolves in water when hydrogen is released. This must be regenerated periodically with acidity because it oxidizes.
Atypical is the simultaneous swirling of water and a magnet with 5400 Gauss.
The following measured values are stated by the producer:
The maximum hydrogen saturation of 1,2 ppm is reached after 10 minutes of operation.
The pH value of water rises by about 2 pH due to the chosen minerals and the outgassing of carbon dioxide during electrolysis.
Simultaneously, a mineralization and chemical ionization of water takes place thanks to magnesium, FIR ceramic balls and calcium beads. The exact composition is cited as a “manufacturing secret”. Unusual, compared to chemical water ionizers, is a small swirling jet above the mineral ring which should distribute the minerals more effectively in the water.
The ORP decreases especially because of the dissolved hydrogen to circa – 200 mV (CSE)
This relationship changes with a magnetic resonance measurement. The results are certainly very unstable and do not allow for a conclusion to be stated about smaller water clusters, since these change constantly within split seconds. These amounts are pseudoscientific. Both clusters are relatively big. This is due to the abnormal drinking temperature of 27 degrees C.
The pseudo scientific character is also reflected in a depiction of a water canal in the cell membrane. Aquaporins, these water canals, do not ever allow water clusters to pass into the cell, only single water molecules.
Again, the pseudo scientific character is also revealed with the statement of hexagonally structured water which is created by this device. The cancer research of Dr. Won H. Kim is cited in a completely wrong context. It relates to water with calcium ions, that shows more hexagonal rings as it has a greater number of exclusion zones. This does not make the water as a whole, hexagonally structured.
Equally unscientific are the before and after pictured ice crystals from Masaru Emoto. These deal with Emoto’s own statements about a free, artistic choice of photos. Ice crystals are always hexagonal. Depending on the phase of freezing when the photographer presses on the shutter release are different photos made of that. This has nothing to do with drinking water.
The integrated 5400 Gauss magnet could have an improving influence on the water during electrolysis after the electromagnetic induction principle. This could result in an improved solubility of minerals, hydrogen and oxygen. The results ultimately show this. The Kirlian photographs of fingertips presented here cannot be attributed to that. These simply show an increased energy emission in the extremities after drinking water caused by the improved blood circulation which can be proven with other methods. These photos can also be made without a magnet.
The manufacturer also claims to illustrate how “Hydrogen Rich Alkaline Reduced Water” is produced by the device with dark field microscopic vital blood photos. This is, however, insufficient, for all forms of water drinking thin the blood.
In the second photo you can still see that some of the blood cells still do not repel each other, meaning that a deficiency of cell voltage occurs. Only more liquid is available. To truly demonstrate the effect, the test person would have to drink a certain amount of another kind of water at the same time and being in the same condition, on an empty stomach. The blood sample would have to be controlled after drinking at the same time, preferably 10 minutes after drinking. Only like this can you prove that one water has a better effect than the other. This has already been proven for alkaline activated water and is also presented in my book “Electro-Activated Water”. However, I used alkaline activated water from a diaphragm ionizer. Wether OXY-Hydrogen Water, which also contains oxygen, is clearly better than mineral water, is not verifiable with these two photos.
I urge you to understand the differences between OXY-Hydrogen water (Knallgas water) and alkaline activated water from a water ionizer:
- Without water separation is there also no gas separation of oxygen and hydrogen. With its oxidative potential is the antioxidant performance of hydrogen equalised, compensated, so the healing performance is minimal.
- Therefore also no unusually low ORP occurs.
- With one chamber electrolysis in an OXY-Hydrogen device, no anions are withdrawn, like chloride, sulphate, nitrate. Merely more alkaline minerals are added, like magnesium and calcium.
OXY-Hydrogen water, which can also be produced with gassing of hydrogen or chemical reagents, has only been researched for the past 8 years. Alkaline activated water has been researched since 1931 and there is significantly more knowledge and information about it.
Yet it is surely better to drink water from the Vital Water Plus than regular water. These kind of devices with their simple technology are comparatively cheaper to produce than a classic water ionizer based on the diaphragm electrolysis.
In any case I believe the better solution amongst these mobile devices is the variety with a 5 V battery, because they enable you to produce a better water anywhere and when en route. I present you with a detailed video of a such a device, used and tested in person. https://www.aquacentrum.com/shop/aquacentrum-blue-700-hydrogen-water-maker-hrw/
Having performed appropriate trials I consider the swirling and use of a permanent magnet to be a marketing blunder. The adding of minerals is not necessary with Central European mineral and tap water, it is already sufficiently loaded with these. A small amount in powder form can be added if required.
Julia M.: I don’t have room in my studio flat for a flow through water ionizer, I travel a lot and don’t want to drink more than 1 litre of alkaline activated water a day because I eat a lot of fruit. Which batch ionizer do you recommend?
- The advantage of a batch ionizer is that they cope with each water batch because you can programme the time to your will, in which both electrodes in the pot act on the water. In the worst case it starts to boil and the pot melts. I yet have to see a burnt one. In any case I warn against devices from the internet which don’t appear to be subjected to any kind of electrical safety standards like CE. Many have melted. Therefore please buy a device with a timer and a CE approved declaration of conformity. Your insurance will eventually not cover the damage if you don’t. For a long time in the EU batch ionizers are available, that are produced with reliable safety standards, in Germany under the name “Aquaphaser ® Classic”, produced by a family business in Lithuania.
- And the bigger model Aquavolta BTM 3000 complies with European safety standards.
- The third disadvantage lies exclusively with convenience. Since a batch ionizer is not a machine, it is similar to an Espresso portafilter, which has to be cleaned, rinsed and dried after every use.
- In spite of everything – especially to get to know activated water, with young singles with a limited budget, or also in old people’s homes without the possibility of connecting to the water mains in their rooms, is a batch electrolysis device an acceptable solution. Much better than a chemical water ionizer.
- The disadvantage of batch ionizers lies in the not so ideal alkaline activated water. Since the pot doesn’t offer a pressure chamber, hydrogen and oxygen escape during electrolysis. The relaxation begins during the process and minerals are depleted, before the water can be drunk. The sales persons describe these mineral sediments on the bottom of the pot as fallen out pollutants. This is not quite right, for there are also fallen out “healing substances”, which the water cannot hold because of the heating with the continuous process requirements.
- Batch ionizers should not run with unfiltered tap water, since ionized contaminants can be dangerous. This second disadvantage in comparison to flow through devices connected to the water mains can be eliminated with an added external water filter or in which unobjectionable mineral water is bought and used to fill the pot up. Though this strains the previously saved budget in the long run, this is why I only recommend this only when traveling.
Heinz O.: We have a water ionizer with a Flow-Change-System, where you can obtain alkaline activated water immediately. Sadly, first it comes out of the device warm. I want to let the water flow for a while until it is cold. Should I unplug it for this or can I let it ionize beforehand?
- You should let the stagnant water flow out until it is cool. For stagnant water doesn’t only have more pollutants from the piping system but also stores, due to its higher temperature, fewer electrons in its redox potential. If you want to unplug it or leave it running for 1 minute, this is merely an ecological or economic question, since you might waste a bit of electricity. I would not advise to waste 1 – 2 litres of water. You can use the stagnant water for cleaning or to water the plants. I would not give it to pets. That would be mean. When flushing the toilet you waste 4 -9 litres of water. Why should you not treat yourself to optimally prepared water by “wasting” 1 – 3 litres?
- Warm stagnant water should drain better. But for how long? That depends on the housing situation, if you live on the first or fifth floor. You can recognise the fresh water because it is noticeably cooler than the stagnant water. So just hold your finger under the tap.
- Another possibility to reduce stagnant water, is to shower in the morning or to use the toilet flush. If you also want to let water flow through the ionizer, then it only has to flow for a short time – then you are rid of the stagnant water, which is still in the connecting pipes. You will recognise this because it is again cooler.
Before you used to recommend devices without pre-filters, if you had no objections with the tap water. Why do you now want to convince me to buy a pre-filter? Do they also have a risk of germ contamination? What should be watched out for when choosing filters?
- A drinking water without pollution is truly nowhere to be found in Central Europe. The limits of the Drinking Water Directive are often seen critically, even though they are lower than with mineral water. What is important: a contaminant like led or cadmium continuous to be a contaminant, if under the limit, therefore only a poorly contaminant water should be activated. For this reason each flow through ionizer has a built in pre-filter to create drinking water.
- The main reason as to why I used to recommend devices without pre-filters depends on the purity of the water in some places – which is affected due to the pollution of our environment. Besides, many people already have a drinking water filter in use, before they buy a water ionizer. Since the cartridges for external water filters are much cheaper, than those of a water ionizer, it is in the interest of the user to connect a water ionizer to this to avoid buying the expensive manufacturer’s cartridges. Sadly there is a trend, to equip the manufacturer’s cartridge with an electronic chip, which doesn’t allow a bypass of the original filters to be exchanged.
- Germ contamination risk occurs mostly with standard water filters, which are in direct contact with air. The filter cartridges in water ionizers are airtight and integrated into the water stream. The risk is no higher than with tap water itself. Since all the integrated filters known to me are manufactured with more or less high quality activated carbon, partly sprayed with antimicrobial silver, a germ contamination is very unlikely because the properties of activated carbon are germicidal. Nevertheless, the operating life of activated carbon should be followed closely according to the manufacturer’s instructions. A non official exchanged filter is surely a risk to germ contamination. You also wouldn’t want to delay the due oil change of your car, since you are at risk of damaging the engine.
- Once an activated coal filter comes into contact with water, the manufacturer’s countdown starts of the use (usually between 6 – 12 months). It doesn’t depend on wether 1 litre or 10.000 litres have flown through. You should also watch, that when in use you do not overstep the filter capacity (3000 – 16.000 litres, depending on manufacturers and cartridge size).
- A filter should also stay a filter, so contaminants should be filtered out and chemicals should not be added, to improve the pH values or the Redox Potential. That this type of chemical water ionizing is completely pointless I have already mentioned before. The only supplement, which I consider important, is the addition of calcium and/or magnesium in soft water areas, as long as the water ionizer doesn’t have it’s own calcium port.
- With a generally good water situation is an activated carbon granulated filter. With organic – chemical contaminants in the water from agriculture, pharmaceutics and industry should a buyer place more value to an activated carbon block filter.
- With the presence of dangerous heavy metals, also under the limit, the filter should include additional KDF-filtermaterial or a corresponding special filter installed under the counter. There are also devices with 2 built in pre-filters, which are configured correspondingly.
- Disputed is, whether to use with a microbial contamination instead of silver steamed activated carbon the added ceramic filter elements (bio ceramic filters). These are definitely an alternative to the sometimes unwished for silver steaming. Essentially the silver steaming has become a standard with activated carbon granules. Since it deals with nano layers of silver, a damaging effect on the water is not to be considered. Even fridges are steamed with silver, to counteract the effects of germ contamination.
- Reverse osmosis filters are not suited as pre-filters for water ionizers, since they also filter minerals and therefore do not produce drinking water.
- With problematic water that has fluctuating quality you can also use ultrafiltration – hollow fibre membrane filters, which are many times finer than activated carbon filters.
- Waste water you will recognise from any drinking water analysis of the water supplier. Especially in the field of cations you should watch out for, that no pollutant is close to the limits of the measured values, since with electrolysis more cations are present in alkaline water. If you live in an old building then you should also do the heavy metal analysis with the water sample that you can test from home.
- Not all producers offer filter test analysis, as in laboratory documents, which shows the performance of the pre filter cartridges. Since a universal polluted water does not exist, such analysis are gotten from unclean water with all sorts of pollutants in it. Of the percentages of the filtered pollutants can then the efficiency level of the filter be read with each individual pollutant. Please be aware with such tests if ionized water was measured, or water that was only filtered. The values of ionized water are usually better, since the electrolysis cell offers an added filter effect, in which it repels anions into the acidic water chamber. Like that the content of anion nitrate is reduced, something a normal filter would hardly be capable of.