Pankaia K.: You hear a lot about ionization. Is there a device that can measure ionization? Is there a scale? What is the value of non-ionized hydrogen water?
What is the value of optimally ionized water-water? Is there a value that goes beyond the optimal? Is ionization and alkalinization linked, or can ionization also occur without alkalinization?
Answer from Karl Heinz Asenbaum about hydrogen water | Author and researcher
OK. This is a deeper question. It's best to read my current book in the extensive German version, available for free download below. It's in there in detail.
But there is also a relatively shorter explanation at an abstract level:
Water ionization has been used as a fairly obscure term since the 1990s. The reason for the original creation of the term is: A water ionizer (diaphragm electrolysis device) breaks down water molecules into the two water ions OH – and H+. What is the value of non-ionized water? Do you mean deionized water, such as reverse osmosis water? This basically has a pH value of 7.0 and a redox potential of approx. + 200 mV (CSE). In reality, it becomes a little more difficult because such water absorbs charges and their charge carriers (ions) “like a sponge” (Dr. med. Walter Irlacher).
However, the decomposition of the water molecules is not the end and, above all, not the most important part of the story, because other processes also take place in a water ionizer: Oxygen and H+ (protons) are split off from the OH ions at the anode, whereby the Oxygen partially dissolves in the water and is mainly removed from the water.
At the cathode, on the other hand, the H+ ions each absorb one electron, thereby becoming a hydrogen atom, which almost immediately combines with the next hydrogen atom to form the hydrogen molecule (H2). Similar to the oxygen side, some of the hydrogen gas remains dissolved in the water and the other gases out. It has been known since 2007 that dissolved hydrogen has the greatest health significance for the water that comes out of the cathode chamber.
Now you're asking for a scale because you want to rate the water to decide what you should drink.
Unfortunately, there are 3 scales, 2 of which are based on ratios and are logarithmic, which makes the matter need to be explained.
- The logarithmic scale of the H+ ions in their ratio to the OH- ions. It is also called the pH scale. It only says something about the content of hydrogen cations (protons). This scale makes it possible to predict whether an aqueous solution reacts acidically (with a predominance of H+ ions) or basic (with a predominance of OH- ions).
- The also logarithmic scale of the redox potentials (ORP values). This represents an electron gradient in millivolts compared to a reference electrode, the type of which must always be specified because there are many different ones. A negative redox potential compared to a hydrogen electrode (at 20 degrees C) definitely indicates a willingness to release electrons and thus transfer energy like a battery to a smartphone. However, measurements are usually taken with a CSE electrode (Ag/AgCl), which measures around 200 mV lower than a hydrogen electrode. So if the measured value there is negative, it only means that electrons are being released at negative values well below 200 millivolts. This means that only water with a CSE-ORP potential of less than (-) 200 mV can be considered antioxidant. When it comes to an antioxidant, it also depends on which oxidant it reacts to. The ORP value says nothing about that. Therefore, the question of the redox potential of water is no longer very interesting these days. The only thing that matters is how much negative redox potential is generated by the dissolved hydrogen. Negative redox potentials can be triggered by many substances dissolved in water. But with negative redox potentials below about -300 mV, dissolved hydrogen is almost always to blame. It can charge the water negatively up to -1000 mV (CSE), making it a really strong antioxidant. However, it only reacts to strong oxidants such as CSE electrodes, hydroxyl radicals and the perroynitrite anion.
- The scale of dissolved hydrogen gas is linear, but divided into two parts: On the one hand, it is measured relative to the amount of water in ppm (parts per million) and ppb (parts per billion - the b in ppb stands for the American trillion, which we call a billion!). On the other hand, you can also measure it absolutely in micrograms or milligrams per liter of water. At normal air pressure and temperature, that's 1600 micrograms or 1,6 milligrams per liter of water. Research is still raging on this, but what is certain is that 0.5 mg of hydrogen gas/day could have positive health effects, according to some researchers. Others call for up to 3 mg/day. It doesn't matter what the value #2 (ORP) is. The extent to which the value 1 (pH) is important is still controversial in 2017. It probably depends on whether the hydrogen is needed in the event of a health problem that is combined with hyperacidity or not. That was my belief in April 2017. There is currently no clear study available for either this or the opposite view. That's no surprise since this topic has only been around for 7 years.
It is important for the assessment that you do not get involved in ppm/ppb values of dissolved hydrogen. If someone offers you hydrogen effervescent tablets that detect 5 ppm in a glass, ask for the micrograms/L values. If the glass is only filled with 0,1 liter and 50 drops of H2 blue kit are neutralized, which corresponds to a content of 5,0 ppm, that is only 0,5 mg per liter, i.e. what is stated in the scientific literature is considered a therapeutic minimum. If you drink 6 such glasses, i.e. consume 6 tablets worth €1 each, you will reach the maximum discussed level of 3 mg/day. Even classic water ionizers - at least the ones I recommend - create 0,8 to 2,2 mg/per liter. With just 0,63 liters of water you can reach the minimum therapeutic level for one of the weaker ionizers. You can quickly calculate when it is worth purchasing such a device over tablets, especially if you have several water drinkers to look after.
Now ask if there is a value for the hydrogen water that goes beyond the optimal:
Here I have to answer again with the 3 scales:
- You should adhere to the drinking water regulations. The maximum pH value of unionized drinking water, which in Germany is pH 9,5, is very firmly established and I see no reason to exceed it. I think pH 9 to 9,5 is optimal. The deacidification ability of basic ionized water with pH 9,5 should neither be underestimated nor overestimated. It neutralizes a cola twice as well as tap water. But every drop of lemon juice in 1 liter lowers the weakly buffered pH value by around 0,1 pH. If you now come across the argument that a water ionizer can only achieve very high hydrogen values if it works in a range well above the drinking water regulations, that is basically correct. Let's be honest, there are people who like to drink drinking water with a pH of 10 or even 11 - I've been one of them for 12 years - but water above pH 9,5 takes some getting used to for some people. But where is that problem? With a drop of lemon juice I can reduce the pH value of the water by about 0,3 pH. So if I don't like very alkaline water with a pH of 12, I can use about 5 drops of lemon juice to reduce it to a pleasant level, which also corresponds to the drinking water standard in Germany. But it doesn't depend on the drinking water standard and its highest pH: what matters is that it tastes good!
- In natural foods I have found ORP values of up to -350 mV (CSE). However, these are largely due to minerals. However, these minerals do not disappear as the food ages. A certain redox potential remains, unless the minerals are already oxidizing. But it is primarily the hydrogen that causes life to leave the food with its outgassing. This part of the aging process (unfortunately it is not the only one) can be reversed by adding hydrogen (“reverse aging”). Therefore, I have moved away from my previous opinion regarding a “natural” optimal redox potential of minus 350 mV (CSE). This no longer seems tenable to me if hydrogen influences the redox potential. Only for cooked food, for example, where all hydrogen gas has evaporated, would I cast doubt on foods that show less than 350 mV ORP (CSE). In my opinion, it can't hurt at all to add hydrogen to any food, whether fresh or cooked. Because hydrogen does no harm, even in excess quantities. Therefore, the redox potential can be completely neglected after hydrogen is added. You actually only need it sometimes when you compare fresh and old fruits, where, unlike water, direct hydrogen measurement is not as easy. It seems to be quite simple: the fresh fruit has a lot of hydrogen and a correspondingly low redox potential compared to its counterparts. As it ages, the hydrogen degasses and the average redox potentials of conspecifics of different ages adjust to one another.
- Regarding the actual hydrogen content in mg/l, the “optimum” probably depends on the state of health or the type of illness. In fact, there are absolutely no known side effects at the amounts relevant to drinking water. Deep divers often breathe gas mixtures containing over 90% hydrogen without harm. Here we are not even in the per mille range. So realistically there is no upper limit for hydrogen water. The lower limit of 0,5 mg/l for therapeutic benefit in certain health problems is also not yet certain.
Now to your question: Can hydrogen water be ionized without alkalinization?
Unfortunately, this question is incorrect.
When water is ionized into the two ions OH- and H+, the water is not alkalized. It doesn't even become alkaline. The ionization of water is known as dissociation or autoprotolysis. It doesn't change the pH value. The different pH values in the anode chamber (below pH 7) and the cathode chamber (above pH7) only arise through the use of a diaphragm membrane, which prevents the electrolysis products of the water from mixing. This can result in alkaline water on one side and acidic water on the other.
Alkalization of water can only happen when ions of alkali or alkaline earth metals are dissolved in the water. In a water ionizer with a classic diaphragm membrane, such ions migrate into the chamber with the negative electrode (cathode) due to their positive charge. But they rarely get there, because the electrodes in a water ionizer are platinum-coated and, as a catalyst, draw mainly H+ ions there, which are much faster than the slow alkaline or alkaline earth ions.
Testing hydrogen content using the hydrogen booster
Only when these small ions are all supplied with electrons and are emerging as hydrogen gas are the big, fat alkalizers allowed to approach, which then quickly make their way to an OH (hydroxide) on the cathode and it turns out to be calcium hydroxide on the catalyst layer, for example make it comfortable and prevent the further formation of hydrogen and hydroxide ions. This is the reason why you need to descale water ionizers even better if the tap water contains a lot of calcium and magnesium ions.
So to your last question:
Without alkalinization you can really ionize. This requires an even more critical diaphragm membrane that only allows H+ ions to migrate from the anode side to the cathode side. These H+ (protons) are fed up with electrons to form hydrogen and the waste generated on the anode side from the oxygen species (molecules, radicals, ozone, etc.) is disposed of into the room air. This is called the PEM process, proton exchange membrane. This has nothing to do with alkali and alkaline earth metals such as calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium. That's why a PEM electrolysis cell also works with deionized water and produces hydrogen-rich water on this basis. The only thing that clouds this water is its non-turbidity. In absolutely purified water, the desired hydrogen gas obviously cannot hold on as easily and evaporates from the water about twice as quickly as in alkaline water.
And another note:
Ionization and alkalinization are not strictly linked. What is linked is the increase in OH ions, which create a basic pH value, i.e. more than pH 7, which is just a ratio term. OH ions are the base formers. And earlier chemistry simply said: We use these to measure basicity. But the new thing about alkaline activated water is that there are OH ions here, which are completely disorientated fellows because they simply lack their normal counterpart, the “base residue” in the form of alkali or alkaline earth metals: because it is in drinking water in contrast to an industrial electrolysis situation in lye production is quite low. Therefore the pH value means practically nothing here. Drinking water, which does not contain very many alkali or alkaline earth metals, does not corrode if you raise it to pH 10, 11, 12, 13 by creating a corresponding excess of OH- ions through electrolysis.
Finally, what I think is the most important thing about hydrogen water in practice. This is my opinion and not medical advice!
- Every living thing needs hydrogen to become fresh and stay fresh.
- Anyone who has an acid excess problem needs bases. The older, the more likely.
- From my point of view, it seems fundamental to strengthening vitality. More hydrogen. This corresponds to the improvement of the thermodynamic balance between the very hydrogen-poor Earth and the universe in which hydrogen is the most abundant element. Even the most primitive life lives from the combustion of hydrogen within the sun, which is transformed via radiation energy.
- Older and sick people should drink alkaline hydrogen water
- Younger and healthy people should at least drink neutral hydrogen water. But alkaline doesn't do any harm.
- Competitive athletes and highly stressed, healthy people should drink alkaline hydrogen water.
- Depending on your health, hydrogen water should be consumed daily at between 500 and 3000 micrograms per liter.
Since there doesn't seem to be any quantitatively reliable findings on the entire topic, I can currently only answer your question as follows, in mid-April 2017:
Personally, I drink at least 1,5 mg of hydrogen per day and think that it doesn't matter whether I do this using 2,1 mg/liter of hydrogen from my water ionizer or using a Hydrogen boostersto Hydrogen infusion machine (HIM) or from hydrogen-generating tablets or powders. Only the result counts.
I've never felt bad after drinking more of it. But sometimes very bad when I missed the supplementary supply of hydrogen to my organism.
Kind regards /with kind regards
Karl Heinz Asenbaum
